tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post8302376542766550043..comments2024-03-26T12:05:16.393+00:00Comments on Are You Tasting the Pith?: Wikio Rankings Preview - May 2011ZakAveryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01794154105596597019noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-13882626078027511322011-06-06T19:08:19.749+01:002011-06-06T19:08:19.749+01:00Points taken Zak but I'd point out that when C...Points taken Zak but I'd point out that when CAMRA got started, bitter and mild ales, made entirely or mainly from English materials, were the main types of cask beer available, with bitter the more popular form (nationally). So, preservation of the existing real ale types - of existing tastes, in effect - was the goal. <br /><br />Of course, this doesn't rule out new cask flavours, indeed one can argue that a cask porter, say, was a new flavour when it came back since porter was not being sold when CAMRA began. However, most cask porter, until perhaps recently, that I tried in England was made in a traditional way and fit in well I would say to the bitter-mild-old ale matrix.<br /><br />I am all for diversity, and I fully agree that real ale made with, say, U.S. hops is fully real ale and within CAMRA's definition. Really I am suggesting though, that in the fervor to welcome new tastes, we should not forget the old and the classic - it was these, I feel, which were so good that they were able with CAMRA's great efforts to resist the tide of keg beer and lager. I am not sure that would happen if half the cask sold was APA-style, in other words, given too how modern keg is much better than the old (i.e., when unpasteurized and made with a decent amount of malt and hops). Maybe I am wrong. <br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-27406574577484222722011-06-06T16:16:12.528+01:002011-06-06T16:16:12.528+01:00Anon - the Wikio rankings are a measure of how wel...Anon - the Wikio rankings are a measure of how well the blog is linked to from other sources - essentially, a measure of popularity that doesn't take traffic into account<br /><br />Lorraine - I have mixed feelings about CAMRA - I like parts of it, and dislike other parts. Overall, if it get's people thinking about the toic - beer - then I'm all for it.<br /><br />Gary - I think you're unintentionally conflating two of the arguments - that cask ale is a style of beer (it's not, it's a mode of dispense) and that CAMRA are pro- best bitter (again, they just champion a mode of dispense). While it's true that the classic English ales 9and Old Hooky is a great favourite of mine) are singular to British brewing, the wealth of flavour offered up by new world hops and a generation of British brewers keen to experiment and be influenced is something we should be celebrating, not complaining about. If ordinary brown beer was threatened by these newcomers, then I'd be up in arms, but I don't see any sign of that happeneing.ZakAveryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01794154105596597019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-261959872146565832011-06-05T14:01:54.673+01:002011-06-05T14:01:54.673+01:00Some good points there, Zak.
I know in my gut tha...Some good points there, Zak.<br /><br />I know in my gut that the kind of English real ale CAMRA set out to preserve is, when well served, the best beer in the world. I first traveled to the U.K. in the early 1980's. That was hardly 10 years after CAMRA started, many of the old regionals now gone were still in business. And the beers were phenomenal. (Once again I am discounting beers served badly, and incidentally you can run into bad keg beer too!). I came to them after tasting some of the early U.S. craft brewing efforts. Good as many were, the English beers swamped them. They were more complex and stylish, better tasting (again, in general). Sure, the odd English regional or brewery-specific taste did not appeal, but even the beers from large producers (like Courage) were superb.<br /><br />In my trips to England since then, I've found the scene, at least in London, less good. There is more choice certainly than before, but that classic English taste I recall from the early 80's seems less prevalent. Of course Fuller is still great, and I lucked into a well-served cask White Shield which was amazing, but I encountered numerous real ales with pungent American piny tastes, or which were cloudy (which I never saw in the 80's), or which were flavoured with ginger, herbs or coffee. These were just not as good as what I remembered from the 80's and then finally (on a recent trip) I had an Old Hooky near Borough Market and I said there it is, that's it, that classic fruity subtle moreish taste from my first trip.<br /><br />I think CAMRA is more important than ever. I have no issues with foreign beer stands at festivals or broader beer coverage afforded in its publications, but English real ale should in my view remain its promotional focus otherwise a unique profile of beer - not just a process but a taste - will I fear become hard to find if not lost, ultimately.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-60489730240802851642011-06-03T13:25:25.186+01:002011-06-03T13:25:25.186+01:00Ghostie - I'll take all the false glory n'...Ghostie - I'll take all the false glory n'all! highest ranking for me - all at the cost of a few out of joint noses. Cheap really. ;-Drabidbarflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02287790634237896071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-87534888825527813702011-06-02T18:31:25.959+01:002011-06-02T18:31:25.959+01:00Ian - I'm at loss to understand who are these ...Ian - I'm at loss to understand who are these people that doubt Molson Coors' commitment to Sharp's; certainly not anyone at Molson Coors or the team at Sharp's. We have already invested significantly in the brewery at Rock and in recruiting new people to the team there - you are very welcome to come to Rock and see for yourself, you'll find our heart is very warm and welcoming.Kristy McCreadyhttp://www.molsoncoors.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-3258207561713908492011-06-02T18:23:17.610+01:002011-06-02T18:23:17.610+01:00Right on, Zak. I enjoy lots of beer blogs to bridg...Right on, Zak. I enjoy lots of beer blogs to bridge the gap between pints but the recurring them and us theme seems unproductive. I've just joined CAMRA after years of not thinking it worthwhile - maybe it can be changed from within (although in big old creaky national organisation based on decision by committee it could take a while). I was convinced by a chat with a branch chairman who didn't try to recruit me, he just enthused about the beer. He recognised that CAMRA's communications channels needed to reflect the changing demographic of beer drinkers and spoke about how he relied upon newer (younger) members to keep things moving at a local level at least.Lorrainenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-60012330553362976392011-06-02T18:09:16.161+01:002011-06-02T18:09:16.161+01:00Zak. Good blog. It reminds me of Frankie boyle'...Zak. Good blog. It reminds me of Frankie boyle's Vegetarian Option joke. "Excuse me, is there a vegetarian option?" "Of course there is, you can f*ck off."<br /><br />The point of this "Keg revolution" thing is <br />a) It isn't happening <br />b) If it is going to happen it doesn't need CAMRA to promote it. <br />c)If CAMRA starts to promote keg big business will destroy CAMRA.<br /><br />Getting people into cask is a great way of getting them into the craft beer scene where they will experiment with keg and bottles if they wish. <br /><br />My only gripe with CAMRA's direction is that it promotes bottled beers and cider. I like and consume bottled beers and cider (And keg beers) but they aren't real ale. Those with the promotion of these drinks categories at heart should take the vegetarian option and start their own campaigns.<br /><br />Ultimately there is only one reason for a licensee who cared about beer quality to choose a given beer in keg rather than cask (Given the choice) and that is that it wouldn't sell fast enough to go through 9gall in a week. What craft beer wouldn't be better if it had undergone secondary fermentation in the cask? (I can still taste the DeRanke Gouldeburg(sp) that I had on cask at the Jemmy hirst. It was gorgeous.) All he has to do is keep everything clean, close the tap and hard peg every night and the beer will get better and better every day till it goes off. If it's in cask.<br /><br />We throw 2 litres of brewdog keg product a week away during line cleaning and 50 litres lasts about 3 months. So we're selling 4 pints a week. £2.90 a pint for Punk IPA. We can sell a 9 of it in a night on cask. Vive la revolution!<br /><br />Dave: Cask ale market saturated? Not from where I'm standing. According to the Cask Ale report locally produced cask ale sales have been growing very fast for years and continue to do so.<br /><br />Jeff: I recall a certain erstwhile beer blogger/brewer bemoaning that SIBA wouldn't divulge the prices payable on the Direct Delivery Scheme to him so he could decide whether to join. I explained that this was commercially sensitive information, the result of deals done by SIBA on behalf of it's members. To divulge it to a non member would be unethical being unfair on all those subscription paying members and probably a breach of contract with the pubcos. Beer magazine is published by CAMRA for its members. Same kinda thing. Just pick one up off a CAMRA member's bog floor. ;)Denzil Vallancenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-27726175778554660182011-06-02T13:31:19.304+01:002011-06-02T13:31:19.304+01:00Rob - don't you mean that should have been ...Rob - don't you mean that should have been 'us'?Ghost Drinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00753576955816756710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-7872985288224214612011-06-02T11:50:23.349+01:002011-06-02T11:50:23.349+01:00Jeff they do — you can buy it, but why should it b...Jeff they do — you can buy it, but why should it be free to non members, I don’t get Saga I have to rely on my mum’s copy. (And BTW the way the only reason I want Saga is to try and get some features with them, they pay well.)Adrian Tierney-Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421802854011395300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-59452972760356779722011-06-02T11:42:07.395+01:002011-06-02T11:42:07.395+01:00What are these Wikio rankings meant to tell us? Ar...What are these Wikio rankings meant to tell us? Are they supposed to represent writing quality, blog popularity, representation outside the community, or are they just a bit of fluff?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-52613808736052099972011-06-02T11:33:21.857+01:002011-06-02T11:33:21.857+01:00Martyn when you charmingly said I was talking parn...Martyn when you charmingly said I was talking parnoid bollocks over at Pencil and Spoon I pointed out some of the usual suspects.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-37897790638028772732011-06-02T11:20:29.551+01:002011-06-02T11:20:29.551+01:00If only CAMRA would make "Beer" availabl...If only CAMRA would make "Beer" available to non-members.Jeff Pickthallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06343140031285101096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-23198345720793511002011-06-02T11:00:46.004+01:002011-06-02T11:00:46.004+01:00BSF is one of the main reasons I visit GBBF, getti...BSF is one of the main reasons I visit GBBF, getting a glass of De Molen dispensed from a oversized barrel by no other than Menno Oliver was a very exciting moment last year.<br /><br />Sorry for moving this even further off-topic but I can't be arsed with all that CAMRA bashing he-said-she-said stuffanonsense.<br /><br />Back to Wikio ratings... I moved down to 20th but am still holding on for dear life. Kinda nice to rub-shoulders with the cream of the Bloggerati. Mr G Writer is still rockin' and a rollin' at 10th place, DAMN you for turning down my offer to write for HopZine all those months back... that should have been ME!<br />;-)Rob Derbyshirehttp://hopzine.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-17408998870892699542011-06-02T10:16:15.277+01:002011-06-02T10:16:15.277+01:00Ian - I'm aware of your role, hence the subtle...Ian - I'm aware of your role, hence the subtle eye-rolling towards the BSF bar. BSF started as a table did it? From small acorns, etc.ZakAveryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01794154105596597019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-5467994484108493792011-06-02T08:59:54.301+01:002011-06-02T08:59:54.301+01:00Lucid as ever, bringing a bit of perspective to th...Lucid as ever, bringing a bit of perspective to the whole comical affair.Adrian Tierney-Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421802854011395300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-23214431445672687422011-06-02T08:47:39.659+01:002011-06-02T08:47:39.659+01:00Thanks for that link Zak, as I've said in othe...Thanks for that link Zak, as I've said in other places I'm only an occasional browser of Beer Blogs and tend to be selective when I do, and I've only responded to the Valentinegate affair on those that I do read. <br />Martyn has, elsewhere, agreed that it's more that 'some' beer blogs that are dire and I think that's where a lot of the impressions about Bloggers comes from.<br />Nobody could accuse me of not being all embracing in my attitude to beer, having previously managed BSF for 5 years I've been instrumental in expanding beer horizons for 1000's of visitors to GBBF. I first worked on 'the Foreign Beer Table' at GBBF in 1982, and when BSF really took off in the mid 90's we were fighting, almost constantly, against some of the grey beards who wanted us out. We were known as the Militant Wing of CAMRA and we were proud to be entryists and successfully gain a significant profile within CAMRA & GBBF. But we were focused specifically on the International perspective rather than the UK (save for the declaration of Fulham as an Independant State). But we didn't succeed by being disrespectful of what CAMRA has achieved.<br /><br />Oh, and that motion at Conference referenced in Pete's blog was, if memory serves me right, to stop wine being sold at beer festivals.Ian Garrettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-70246677088753136382011-06-02T08:42:24.803+01:002011-06-02T08:42:24.803+01:00From my perspective I don't think any blogger ...From my perspective I don't think any blogger is upset. I think most are having a good snigger into their half pint of kegged double black, obscure spirit cask aged, cocoa infused, Belgian style, oxymoronic, freeze distilled, limited edition IPA.<br /><br />Moreover, the brewers like me who have found that the traditional cask market is saturated are also loving it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-70434968620787225302011-06-02T08:10:43.230+01:002011-06-02T08:10:43.230+01:00I think this is more or less what I've been sa...I think this is more or less what I've been saying all along and for years. And Pete does have a pop more than most. <br /><br />What surprises me most however, is the give it but can't take it thing.<br /><br />Hopefully though we can move on. Until the next time.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-89251235392681175112011-06-02T07:15:45.898+01:002011-06-02T07:15:45.898+01:00Martyn - I think it would have to be someone prett...Martyn - I think it would have to be someone pretty influential to rattle Valentine so much, and I'd be surprised if the whole thing doesn't rotate around <a href="http://petebrown.blogspot.com/2011/03/weve-to-to-acc-en-tu-ate-positive.html" rel="nofollow">this post by Pete</a>, the comments that follow it, and all of the blog posts that various bloggers posted around that time (I'd reference them now, but I've only got 50 minutes to write this AND get the family dressed and out the door). While Pete works very hard to maintain an even hand, some of the comments there are a bit zealous. And there are plenty of blogs written by other bloggers (who are Wikio Top 20, for what it's worth) around that time that say similar things - who can resist a good meme?ZakAveryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01794154105596597019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-39516834682013146372011-06-02T00:38:06.757+01:002011-06-02T00:38:06.757+01:00Seriously, this was an excellent post, supplying a...Seriously, this was an excellent post, supplying a bit of much-needed balance. If Colin V.'s remarks were symptomatic of anything, it's a communication breakdown between CAMRA and (some) beer bloggers - and that's not going to be remedied by all concerned retiring to their bunkers and grumbling.Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-6085703345679816962011-06-02T00:30:12.396+01:002011-06-02T00:30:12.396+01:00Really, honestly, Martyn, who cares what Colin Val...Really, honestly, Martyn, who cares what Colin Valentine thinks about beer bloggers?Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-85316709617821314952011-06-02T00:25:51.497+01:002011-06-02T00:25:51.497+01:00Really, honestly, Ian, who cares about what beer b...Really, honestly, Ian, who cares about what beer bloggers think? We're just talking among ourselves. And if a tiny handful of actually pretty uninfluential people have dissed Camra (not that anyone has shown me any evidence of this), so what? Is that a reason to rant about how all beer bloggers are only interested in the next new beer? Not, I think.Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-59591930523504623702011-06-02T00:10:31.744+01:002011-06-02T00:10:31.744+01:00I'll take the 'false glory!' - Woooooo...I'll take the 'false glory!' - Woooooo!!!Ghost Drinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00753576955816756710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-56704788198272921692011-06-01T23:35:42.179+01:002011-06-01T23:35:42.179+01:00Yes, top post, Zak. Glad someone "gets it&quo...Yes, top post, Zak. Glad someone "gets it".:)Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-72277889156220824.post-70558048406592204892011-06-01T22:49:07.934+01:002011-06-01T22:49:07.934+01:00I'd love to make a long and cogent response ab...I'd love to make a long and cogent response about why Colin said what he said but I'm not inside his head. However, I'm fairly sure he, like many others, had got fed up with some, not all, bloggers and their disrespect for what CAMRA has done. <br />It may well be that he's over reacted to an insignificant perceived slight but it does get tedious to hear that CAMRA is irrelevant as it doesn't campaign for 'craft' beer. As you rightly say that's not what CAMRA is about, it's name tells you what it does campaign for. Most CAMRA members would prefer cask ale any day, but the idea that that's all we drink is laughable. CAMRA was formed because of the real and imminent threat to cask ale in the UK in the 70's, it may well be that the threat has diminished but we should ever be on our guard. Is everyone really convinced that Molson has the future of Sharps cask ales close to it's cold heart?<br />So, why hasn't Colin been taken to task? At the AGM he was speaking, mainly, to an audience that agreed with him that cask is best, and who probably never, ever read any blogs. So it was a bit like shooting fish in a barrel and maybe of less interest than which bar to head to in the evening.<br />As you so rightly say "You poked the sleeping dog and it bit you. Deal with it" no babies were burnt and no goats sacrificed.<br />And if wasn't for being up to my eyes in painkillers, after a tooth extraction, I'm sure I'd have made less of a rambling response.<br /><br />Your man behind the BAF bar (Bieres Avec Frontieres).Ian Garrettnoreply@blogger.com